75. How To Have Faith Conversations

In this episode, the crew discusses what it's like to have "faith" conversations and how you don't have to be nervous to talk to someone about Jesus.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:29

Welcome back to the Everyday Kingdom podcast. I'm Caleb and I'm here with uh two of my very best friends, Miriam and Raphael. Say hi, guys. Hello. Hello. I said say hi guys. Hi, guys. J.K. Kidding, JK Kidding. You guys doing okay today?

SPEAKER_02 0:46

Yes, sir.

SPEAKER_01 0:46

I'm on one today.

SPEAKER_02 0:47

I can tell.

SPEAKER_01 0:48

Yeah, I had a I had a quite an interesting night of sleep. And yeah, I just it wasn't great. So today it's like, here we go. This is what we're doing today. We're gonna rock and roll.

SPEAKER_02 0:58

At least you were on time.

SPEAKER_01 0:59

I was on time. Yeah, I was on time. I was ready. I showed up. Raphael was already here. He opened the door for me. He's like, Welcome to Kingdom Life Church. You should meet the pastor. He's a real turd. Not always. And that's how we kick off our days here at Kingdom Life. We're so excited to be here and thankful to be here. And today we were just, we thought we'd have a conversation about faith, about our faith, about sharing our faith. How do you how do you share your faith? Or really, I don't mean I don't want to wrap it around in sharing your faith because it's not necessarily uh a conversation about evangelism or that kind of thing, but just how to have faith conversations. Really, maybe that's a better way to put it. Like how to have faith conversations, how to talk about your faith. I was talking to somebody this morning and and told them that I was gonna be recording a podcast and they they just mentioned, what are you gonna talk about? And I said, I don't I don't know. I'm just gonna go and we're gonna figure it out. And they said, How can you even do that? I would be so anxious uh if I didn't know what I was gonna talk about. And I just thought I thought about that and I thought, you know, I used to get really anxious about that kind of stuff, and and but I was I'm very much at peace just talking about you know my faith and and what I believe and and I just thought, huh, it's there's there's such a a peace that comes with knowing him, right? With knowing Christ. It's not a you know, you talk about having faith in him and that kind of a thing. And that maybe I'm gonna get on a little side tangent here, but uh, you know, you talk about having faith in God, but uh eternal life is knowing him, yeah, not just believing in him. John says that eternal life is knowing God, the one true God and the Son whom he sent. And so I think there's a difference between knowing something and believing in them. And I think when you know him and when you live from constant union with him, there is such a peace that surpasses understanding. You know, he's the prince of it. There's such a peace that it's it makes it easy to go in and have conversations about him. You know, it'd be like I I don't get nervous having a conversation about Miriam.

SPEAKER_02 2:49

Right.

SPEAKER_01 2:49

Because I've worked with you for 14 years, 12 years, 12 years, 12 years. I've worked with you for 12 years, I've known you for 20 years, and we've been on the worship team together. So I if somebody were to come up to me and ask me about Miriam, like I wouldn't be nervous about that. Right. Right. But I think that's how most people feel about God. You know, if they they get nervous about having a faith conversation, and and the reality is it's because they feel like they might not have enough information about him, because they're trying to have some kind of convincing argument versus just living from the express knowledge of who he is and you're unfortunate with him.

SPEAKER_00 3:24

I like how you said they're trying to have an argument instead of instead of just talking about who they love. Yeah. I know when I'm talking about my wife who I love very much, I can name thing after thing after thing, you know, uh about her that I've done with her, you know, like just beautiful things in life. We we have a boy, you know, like it's not this thing where my boy is like this, and my wife is like this, and she's beautiful, and and you know, it's not argument. And if you don't believe it, dude, then you're an idiot.

SPEAKER_01 4:03

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Uh it's funny, like you think about people and and the arguments and stuff they get into about Jesus, right? And it'd be like that'd be like think about it like this. It'd be like me getting into an argument with you about your wife and what you know of her and what I know of her, and being like, because they're not the same things, thinking, oh, well, my way's right and your way's wrong. You know, like if someone tried to get into an argument with me about my wife and about how much they know her versus how much I know her, and they try to tell me this is what she's like and this is what she's like, and I'm like, but that's but you don't you don't you don't know her like I know her, like and you're not gonna convince me, uh maybe I should say you're not gonna convince me that she is like that because I I know her, I've I've spent time with her, I I live in covenant, proximity and with with her. And so, like, in the same way, you think about all the different kinds of conversations that people have about Jesus, and it becomes a knowledge battle, right? And and it's and even even with people who are um non-believers or atheists or whatever, you know, it becomes a battle about knowledge and and like how much do I know factually about them and how much could I prove about them? And so it becomes an argument about their existence versus uh a relational conversation about you know how we are related and connected to one another. And so like you uh they my mom used to say to me all the time, she's like Caleb, you can argue head knowledge, but you can't argue away relationship.

SPEAKER_02 5:31

Well, no, just think about it. Like when you're talking about your wife and you're like, she's so great, excuse me. All you end up all you end up with is here, you should meet her.

unknown 5:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 5:39

Do you know what I'm saying? And if you think about it, that's the whole point of us having these conversations is to introduce people to him. Right. Right. So we're explaining who he is to us and and and what our relationship is like. And you know what, you really need to get to know him, and you decide for yourself. You know, don't let me decide for you. This has nothing to do with me and me proving everything that I know or all the facts that I know, or arguing with you what you know, instead of making it about me. Let me just make it about him.

SPEAKER_01 6:07

Because ultimately that's what it's about. Right. It it's ultimately all about him. Yeah. You know, and we can we will each want to argue our own perspective and experience, you know, with God. I think, and that's the thing, most arguments take place because you have someone who maybe is was disappointed, hurt, or someone represented God in their life and did something wrong to that person, and so then they equated that to God doing that or abandoning them, or they had a mom or a dad who beat them. Like you know what I'm saying, like they will there's all our experiences are what end up speaking so loudly about our understanding of who God is. And then instead of actually giving him a chance and trying to connect relationally with him, we we we have all these other mediators as if we have to explain his behavior. Right, right. We have all these other mediators in between, you know, that it was like, Oh, well, Miriam, she professes to be a Christian and she lied to me, you know, so therefore God must be a liar. And or, you know, the the pastor, he was doing X, Y, and Z, and so therefore he may, you know, like all that kind of stuff, people will use a mediator, an experiential mediator, to then determine their relationship with God instead of going straight to the source. And that's that's what's beautiful about what we have now is we get to go straight to him and have union with him and be in connection with him and find out who he truly and really is, uh totally apart from every other person in their experience.

unknown 7:29

Right.

SPEAKER_00 7:30

And you can't argue that away. I like how Paul in Galatians he he tells Peter and some other people, he's just like, Hey, you've not yet learned Christ. Like you've heard you still don't get it. There's something that you're still not getting, and it's the connection. Like, remember this connection. Remember how God brought you into his love the first time. Remember this, like and when we have faith in Christ, we really remember the the good things. We trust him, we we have a foundation that is immovable because we've grown up in him. We are part of him and he's part of us. And there's nobody, again, there's nobody in the world that could tell me that Caleb Leigh is this awful guy and and all these different things because I I know Caleb, I know Miriam. And um there's if if something were to come out in the news, I would be like, Caleb, how how do we fix this? Like, how because I know you and this is not the truth. Like, how how many lawyers do I have to hire or how how you that's that may be an over exaggeration, right? But I would do everything that I could to defend uh my friend. Um, but more importantly, I would try to get people to know that this is my relationship. Yeah. Because I can defend all day, I can go to a court of law and it I can win a case. But there's a difference between bringing somebody else into relationship with my friend Caleb and my f my friend Miriam.

SPEAKER_01 9:24

Well, and and if you think about it, I mean that's literally exactly what Jesus did. You know, he comes to this earth to show us the true image of who our father is, because up to this point he had been misrepresented so terribly by the religious leaders and by people and them thinking he's one way. I mean, Jesus goes and he he teaches this sermon and he's like, You've heard it said this, but I tell you this. And he goes and he contrasts everything that people thought that they knew about God in their laws and in their understanding. They thought they they knew this was the way and this is what he was like. But Jesus comes and he reveals who Father actually is. You know, Hebrews tells us he's the express image of God, meaning like you want to know what God looks like? This is it right here. You know, Jesus in in his own ministry says that I only say what I've heard the Father say, and I only do what I've seen the Father do. And so Jesus is not operating within his own uh understanding or within his own um governance, he's operating under what he's seen father do. And and everything that he does, he goes and he prays and he says, I've I've completed the work that you've given me. This is before he goes to the cross. I've completed the work that you've given me in in John 17, the high priestly prayer. And he's talking about glorifying Father and saying, Look, I have I have made you known among these people, and I've poured my life and and and and who you are into who they are. And and so what's beautiful about this is that like literally that's what Jesus did, and that's what we get to continue to do is to say, Look, look at Jesus, yeah, look at him, and and and if you have questions about who you think God is, look at Jesus. This is why you know we we have this conversation a lot, but just taking a Christocentric lens, you know, in perspective when when reading the Bible, yeah. Because there's stuff that you read in the Bible that's not of God.

SPEAKER_02 11:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:12

Okay. And and and if it doesn't have, if you don't examine it through the lens of Jesus, then you're going to assume this is who God is. That's that's literally what the Israelites did. And and that's why Jesus comes to say, well, hold on now. Let's let let's let's set this right, let's make it right so you know who he truly is and and know that he loves you, he wants you, he wants to have a relationship with you very personally and intimately.

SPEAKER_02 11:38

So then say that you're talking to somebody and they they don't know Christ at all. They have like no, they don't have a lens through which to view scriptures through him. So you're in you want to introduce them to him. So where do you tell them to start? Like, you know, the best way to learn about him is to what read the scriptures? To talk to him, you know, like how how does that how do you get to that place?

SPEAKER_01 12:01

Yeah, that's such a great question. And because what I think happens a lot of times is is you you ask a question like that, and then and then people give a formula. Sure. Uh-huh. This is the way that you will know him. And if you read this many scriptures and if you start in this place, then you'll get to know him. But the truth is Christ exists outside of the scriptures. Right. Now here's what here I want I want everybody to hear what I just said there and not hear what I didn't say. I did not say that the scriptures are pointless or useless. That's right. Okay, that's not at all what I'm saying. The scriptures are are are the word of God. Like, but Jesus is the word of God, right? So the scriptures point to him. Like he is it. He's the he's it. And then they point to him. You know, he he even Jesus even says to the religious leaders, you search the scriptures for eternal life. He's like, You're looking through this stuff because you think this is what brings you eternal life. I am he. Like here, I here I am. You know, I'm and I'm paraphrasing this, but he he's he's basically saying, Look, you guys are are missing the person. This is why we just finished the series on free from religion, because you can you can take something that is good and right and beautiful and be make it into a system or formula that then replaces the person. We never want to do that. You know, Jesus is the person, and so the place that I always start is let's get to know Jesus the person.

unknown 13:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:18

You know, and that's it's and that's just as as real as like making uh an introduction to to Miriam. You know, it's I can I can I can make an introduction to Miriam. Say Miriam has a couple books that she's written. I could say, here, read these books about Miriam, right? And then you'll really know Miriam, but that doesn't take the place of actually knowing her personally, right? So it wouldn't it be better if I got to know her personally and I got to read her books?

SPEAKER_02 13:44

Right.

SPEAKER_01 13:45

Yeah, absolutely. So if I if I if you're asking me where in the scriptures do I begin, I always love to begin in John.

SPEAKER_02 13:51

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_01 13:52

Uh and and and John and then the gospels, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, and um, and then first John and second, third, going through those, and then going through um Acts, because that talks about you know historically what happens with the disciples and what that looks like, and then looking at Paul's letters to the churches because that helps to to give a a better understanding of how we are to live as believers and what our life will look like as we you know give ourselves to Christ. So if we're talking about where to begin scripturally, that's where I would always begin. Um, but every time that I'm reading the scriptures, I'm always asking the question, God, reveal yourself to me. Yeah. Yeah. Like I want to see you in this. You know, because John, if you go and read the scriptures, you'll see that John tells us that we don't need a teacher, that Holy Spirit is our teacher. Now it doesn't mean that teachers aren't important.

SPEAKER_00 14:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:39

Because they absolutely are. They help us to see things that we maybe are missing or helps to put us on a path that will lead and to guide us into growing in knowledge and understanding. But Holy Spirit ultimately is the one that is who teaches us.

SPEAKER_02 14:53

So so wait, so what you're telling me is that if I don't have already a relationship with Jesus, if I just ask him to reveal himself to me that he would do it.

SPEAKER_01 15:04

100%. And you don't need a Bible for that. Right. Thankfully. Thankfully like thankfully, I mean I mean think about that, like that might go against what a lot of people believe is you don't need a Bible for Jesus to be revealed.

unknown 15:15

Right.

SPEAKER_01 15:16

Now he does reveal himself through the scriptures. 100%. You don't have to have that. Well, you have to have is him. Right. It's him. You know, and so at the end of the day, it's it's it is him and having an encounter with Jesus. And and what's beautiful about what he will do is he'll bring people into your life. Like I've heard stories about uh Muslims who are having dreams of this illuminated one who is the Christ. And he he comes to them in dreams, and then and then they they wake up and he's brought a person, a Christian, to them to then have a conversation with them about Jesus.

SPEAKER_00 15:50

Is that what a truly is that truly what a teacher is? Somebody who is saying, walk beside me, no Christ. Not that you have to remember this many things, or you have to remember the book of the whole book of John, which I I can quote quite a bit of of the book of John. I love the book book of John. Um but I want you to know history. This is what our father has done. This is who our father is, you know, and just teaching them how he was, he is, and he is to come.

SPEAKER_01 16:35

Well, if you if you think about it, prophecy is the testimony of Jesus. That's that's what the scriptures tell us that it is. That the spirit of prophecy is the testimony of Jesus. And so I'm prophesying over someone, I'm speaking life over them as I'm testifying of Christ. Yeah right. And if you think about it at its very simplest core, yes, we are all teachers in that sense, just the same as I could teach you all about Marley. I didn't go to school for Marley, I didn't I didn't do study classes on Marley. Uh she hasn't even written a book, so I haven't read a book about Marley, but I could teach you all about her because I've spent time with her and I know her, right? And so I can be a Marley teacher, right? Or a teacher of Marley. Right literally in the same way. Like you have those who are teachers and who have giftings, like spiritual giftings, like they're super gifted to be teachers and to create teachers, but ultimately we are all called to teach. And I'll and and and let me give you the scriptural reference to this. Go into all the world and make disciples. Yeah. It's how do you make a disciple? What do you what do you do when you make a disciple? You're teaching them.

SPEAKER_02 17:43

That's all you do.

SPEAKER_01 17:44

You are you're you're showing them this is the way of Christ. Like this is the way. Like this is the discipline of Christ. This is what life in him looks like, this is who he is, right? And so each and every one of us gets to be a teacher in some form or fashion. Now, some are gonna teach one and some are gonna teach 1,000, right? But the the truth of it is, and it doesn't have to be this big crazy thing that I'm like, oh, I gotta go study all the scriptures so I can become a good teacher. Yes, that information is very helpful, but what you get to do is just live out your life with Christ. And from that outflow, right, you teach people, you know, you're you're you're showing them. And the the more that you are devoting your time and your heart and your energy to spending time with him and knowing him, the easier it is to teach. Right. Just the same as I, you know, again, each one of us are are married, uh, about we have a PhD in what our spouse is like, right? And you could talk to somebody about that because you've chosen to spend time with them.

SPEAKER_00 18:36

I like how um Jesus says to his disciples He says, Servants don't know, you know, what their master does, and you know, it's not given to everybody the you know what the meaning of these parables are, yeah, but to my friends, to the sons, yeah, to the people I'm in relationship with I I'm I'm going to speak clearly and plainly to you. And I am speaking clearly and plainly to you. And that's the difference between reading a a book and having friendship.

SPEAKER_01 19:13

That's good. Like that's a good word. Like having that's a really good word. Because so many people will live from the perceived need and pressure to read a book.

SPEAKER_02 19:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:28

And not live from the joy and the beauty of having a friendship. Those are two very different motivating factors. They're two very different like pressure cookers. Yeah. It's so much easier to live out friendship with someone. Now that doesn't mean that friendship's easy.

unknown 19:48

No.

SPEAKER_01 19:48

Because there's ups and downs in friendship, but it's easier to live from friendship than it is to live from the pressure of, oh, I gotta learn this and I gotta know this and I have to understand this so that I can teach it, so that I can explain it, so I can be ready to give an argument whenever my time has has come.

SPEAKER_02 20:02

Yeah, well, you're just gathering knowledge. And what does knowledge do? It puffs up. It puffs up and it doesn't, it doesn't serve.

SPEAKER_01 20:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:09

I mean, it doesn't it you want it to you want it to to edify or or to help one another or like be I want to memorize this because I know this this scripture really encouraged me and I know that it can really encourage you, but until you have an experience with it and you know the one who it's about, it doesn't, it just sounds, it just sounds trite.

SPEAKER_01 20:29

There's a difference in because we want to get knowledge. There's a difference in getting knowledge to prove something and and versus getting knowledge to understand and to know something. To know.

SPEAKER_02 20:38

Yeah. I I'll never forget somebody was talking about because you know I grew up in church and grew up reading my Bible and stuff, and they were talking about reading the Bible just to read it or just to know versus reading it looking for Christ or reading it to know him. Yeah. And ever since I've started reading it, looking for him, it's amazing the things that have just opened up and just the way that he speaks to my heart because I'm like, okay, Father, show me what you reveal yourself to me in this. And and just sitting in that place has made it so real that when I I do need to share a scripture with somebody, it's it's it's a lot more personal and meaningful. And it doesn't sound just like a trite, uh, you know, um, what's the word? Saying. It doesn't just sound like a saying, it's not just like a saying. I'm trying to to it doesn't sound like a band-aid I'm trying to say.

SPEAKER_01 21:27

This is my canned Christian response.

SPEAKER_02 21:29

Here's an actual salve that's gonna help heal whatever wound is is happening in your life. So I mean it just it it I think about having a form of godliness but denying the power. Yeah. You know, we memorize the scripture and we know what it means, you know, and we say it. It looks godly.

SPEAKER_01 21:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:48

You know, if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, it's a duck or whatever. You know, it looks godly, it looks encouraging, but people will hear it and just be like, Why am I not better? Why do I not get it? You know. Yeah. Because the power behind it is not expressed. Right.

SPEAKER_01 22:10

I mean, Satan can quote scripture. Yeah. He did it to Jesus. But Jesus responded with spiritual maturity.

SPEAKER_02 22:16

That's right.

SPEAKER_01 22:16

You know, by by taking it in the proper context and saying, no, this is this is what Father's like. You're using scripture to twist and to distort to get what you want out of it. But I'm using scripture from the perspective of Father to glorify Father. Those are two very, very different contexts. And that's the thing that happens so much and so frequently with people is they will use and utilize scripture to warp or to distort to get what they want. Yeah. Versus using scripture to to to know him better and to glorify Father. Right. Like and to glorify Jesus. Like that's what this is, and this is what it does. And so I think that we have to be careful with thinking that, you know, quoting scripture makes me somehow spiritual. Right. Because that's literally, I mean, that's what the that's what the Pharisees were about. Right. You know, they could they could quote all like that that was part of their their um their regimen. Like what they had to do was they had to be able to to study and to memorize and to know these things. And those are that's not a bad thing. To know it is not a bad thing. Like to get the understanding and to have the the knowledge is not the bad thing. It's it's when it begins to replace the relational connection with him, and and it be and you begin to think, Oh, I know all this stuff about you, so therefore I don't need to get to know you anymore. Right. Like now all of a sudden there's a disconnect in our relationship.

SPEAKER_02 23:35

Because I've made the focus about me.

SPEAKER_01 23:37

Right.

SPEAKER_02 23:38

Right. Again, about what I know and what I can do and how I can help somebody and how I can pour into their life and how I can teach them anytime the focus is on me, it's distorted.

SPEAKER_00 23:51

There's two ways that this can go. Um, I know a man who was at a funeral one time, and there was kids there. Um the kids were a little bit older, um, some of them, you know, 10 years, 15 years older, and there was one son who was younger. And the younger son got to stay with the father a little bit more than than the other kids. Um so the the older kids, when they heard the younger kids speak, they said, I never knew that about my father. Yeah, I never knew that. And the the younger wasn't asking all this stuff just to get something up on the other kids. Right. They were asking to really truly know their father. Right. And so when they they heard, they're just like, I never asked them that question. Like, I want to know him more. Can you tell me more about my father? And and I think when we truly have learned something, we have this faith that that keeps on growing, we're able to share what we've known about our father, that he he's here, he's alive, thank God he's he's not dead. You know, we don't have we we still get to talk to our father every day.

SPEAKER_01 25:06

Yeah. And and and I think because we're talking about faith conversations, like having a conversation with someone in that area hits differently than having a conversation with someone who's just uh an intellectual or or or spouting knowledge about Jesus. Like you can always tell the difference when you're in the presence of someone who has whose life is marked by the presence of Jesus versus someone who is is just intelligent in in spiritual matters. I'm not saying that those two things can't exist together, but what I'm saying is there's a there's a marked difference in those whose lives are marked by the the the presence of Christ and their union with Him. The way that they carry themselves is different. It's with a humble confidence, you know, it's with a security and a joy. Like there's just it's it's it's marked by the fruit of the Spirit of God. And I I think that that is to me that's a that's a telling marker and and something that each one of our lives gets to carry, you know, as we're having conversations with people uh about who He is. You know, and and and so it's I if I I want to I just want to say to anybody who's listening today, like you don't have to be afraid to have conversations with people about Jesus. Just speak from your relationship with him. And and if you feel as if you know you're in a space where man, I don't I don't really even know where I would begin, well then maybe that's an indicator as to where you need to begin spending your time. You know, maybe you maybe you need to be more intentional about carving out some time in your life to become aware of his presence, to to to spend some time with him, reading his the scriptures, spending time in worship, spending time in prayer. You know, this is how we get to know him more and more is just communing with him, you know, and and having conversations. It's just the same as if someone were to ask you, how do you get to know somebody better? You spend time with them, you ask them questions, right? Like, think about the beginning process of getting to know somebody is you ask a ton of questions and you're very intentional about the time that you spend with them, right? You you you go on dates and you carve out time and you're not listening to anybody else, you put your phone down, right? You know, and and and so like if you're in a space today and you feel like, man, I don't really feel like I could even talk about my faith. You know, I've I feel very insecure about talking about my faith. The reason for that is there there's a lack of confidence there because there's there's a lack of knowing him. And and so that's not a shameful thing. It's just a this is what it is. Like, look in the mirror, this is what it is. Okay, so let's do something about it. I don't I don't have to beat myself up about it for the things that I don't know. But what I get to do is say, okay, God, I want to know you more. And and I'm gonna spend time with you, and I'm gonna live like continually aware of the presence of God in my life. Because He's not leaving me, He's not forsaking me, He's as present as the very mention of His own name. Yeah, you know, and so it's it's just me training myself to listen for that, to quiet every other voice and every other noise and distraction and and to just be living constantly and continually aware of his presence. And as I spend time with him, as I get into his word, as I get his word in me, all of a sudden, in those moments, he that stuff bubbles back up out of me. Yeah, you know, and so I think one of the biggest dangers that people will do is that they will study to teach.

SPEAKER_02 28:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:24

And you you don't want to study to teach, you want to study to know, yeah, and then from what you know, then you can teach, you know, and so I I think that's that's uh most people will think I gotta I gotta study all this stuff so then I can talk to have a conversation about him. No, learn and study so that you can know who he is, right?

SPEAKER_02 28:41

And when you know who he is, when somebody asks you a question that you don't know the answer to, it doesn't shake you or rattle you because I don't have an answer for this, I don't know what to say. You just say, you know what? I'm not really sure. I'm gonna have to seek the Lord on that and ask him because you know, one, he's gonna let me know. Right. And I'm happy to share that with you.

SPEAKER_01 28:58

Which is the same response that I mean, think about this. This is the same, that's the same response that I would give if somebody asked me a question about Martha that I wasn't sure of.

SPEAKER_02 29:04

Right.

SPEAKER_01 29:04

I'd be like, you know what, I'm not sure, but I'm gonna I'm gonna ask, I'm gonna find out.

SPEAKER_02 29:07

That's a good question.

SPEAKER_01 29:08

I'm gonna find out that's something that I haven't asked before. I haven't thought in that context. We're gonna go there. But what it doesn't do is it doesn't rock my relationship and make me think, oh man, I don't know Marla like I should. Oh my god, am I even married? Am I even a Christian like it doesn't rock you in that way? Because you're you know you're secure in that relationship. Yeah, you know that you love her, she loves you. And the same, it's the same here. Like literally, marriage is the picture of our union with God. Like that's what it's supposed to be. And so, you know, it to me that's so helpful in just kind of breaking off the the shame and the fear, yeah, and and releasing that stuff and living from the peace of of you know, getting to know him and and continuing to get to know him throughout my entire life. Yeah, you know, there's that's just to me, that's just a beautiful thing. It is, it's joyful, it's not a scary, yeah. It's not a scary. It's like, wow, there's so much that I get to discover about who you are, and in turn get to discover about who I am in you. Like I'm learning so much more about myself in the whole process.

SPEAKER_00 30:08

Yeah, it's just beautiful. I think there's a difference between uh fact and knowing uh someone I and I just want to put it in a different way, so um I may know a fact for a moment and it may not be true, and so fact and truth can be different, but when I know truth, I know Jesus, and so I made uh a thought that hey Jesus was angry or or all these different things, but that that was not true. It was a true fact that this was stated somewhere, but the truth is Jesus has always loved and he will always love, and he will never forsake. And everything, you know, that may have been a fact written down somewhere is not always true. Like you can go downstairs, right? And I can say, Well, I don't know where Caleb is, and he walked down the stairs really fast, and then you walk back the other way around, you but you you're already upstairs, so I'm telling somebody a fact about something, but I don't know the truth that you're right behind me. You know? So there's so many things just like that. You you may uh understand a certain aspect, you may have seen a certain thing, but you didn't see all the way around. I I can look at a lamp and see this lampshade, but what's on the other side of this lampshade? You know, is there a flower there? Is there something there that I'm not seeing? Yeah, and so don't let your vision, what you've heard, just be the truth. Examine and let the truth come to you.

SPEAKER_01 32:04

And that's man, that that speaks so much to also like with God, there's so much that is this just person, very personal relationship, right? That's me and him. And also, there's so much of him that I get to discover through others. And and he I think that he does that. Um someone once said, and I just I thought it was I thought it was great, that that God doesn't necessarily hide things from us, but he hides things for us, and he oftentimes puts it in other people. And I I I love that because what that means is that in order for me to find what God is hiding from me, I have to be intentional about going and searching for it in people. Because I and I'll just like in my even in my own life, some of the greatest like moments of revelation of who God is to me came through having a conversation with somebody. Whether it was them saying something that brought revelation or them saying something that then sparked a question that I then had a private conversation with the Lord about that that sparked revelation. Uh it's it's been both, you know. But the the point is, is we don't we don't do this by ourselves. Right. We do this together, and as Paul says, like we are part of this body of Christ that every joint supplies, and I can't say to another part of the body, I have no need of you. You know, and so when we're having faith conversations and we're talking about growing and knowing who he is, a lot of what we get to to learn and to know happens through community with others. And whether it's through being in a church and having someone teach or taking a friend to a coffee shop, you know, or or being a part of a small group together, like when you see life in the New Testament, you see it all done together. Like it's always been done together. And so I think that's another point and kind of what you're saying, Rafa. It reminds me of the illustration of you know, you've got uh six men who are standing outside are all around an elephant, and they begin to describe the elephant, but they're all describing something very different. And they're like, no, it looks like tusks, no, it looks like hide, no, it looks like a trunk, no, and but they're describing the same thing, they're just so close to it that they can't see the full picture, and they need one another to be able to help them to see more clearly the fullness of yes, the fullness of what they're what they're looking at. And so, in the same way, you know, there are things that God is going to reveal to Raphael uh that he hasn't revealed to me, and and but he wants to, and it's gonna happen when I have conversation with Raphael, yeah, you know, and then it's like, oh my goodness, this is amazing. My God, you're so good. And so I just I just want to encourage people in that. Like a lot of times you think I've got to get to know God, so I gotta get away from everybody.

SPEAKER_02 34:42

Right.

SPEAKER_01 34:42

But God also reveals himself through everybody. Yep, you know, he fills all things everywhere with himself, is what Ephesians tells us. And so it's if I want to discover what he looks like, then I get to be around all things as well and not just isolate myself from everyone and everything else.

SPEAKER_02 34:58

That's good.

SPEAKER_01 34:59

Which then opens us up to more faith conversation. Yep. You know, what's God one of my favorite questions to ask you is so what's God been speaking to you lately? What's God doing in your life right now? And that opens the door. Like if you're looking to start a faith conversation with someone, there's a tool right there. Yeah. Just say, hey, what's God been speaking to you lately? And and and then and also be prepared for someone to ask you that question. Because then that puts you in a space where I'm like, I need to be listening for what the Lord is speaking to me.

SPEAKER_02 35:24

I need to ask him. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:25

That's one of the things we love to say every morning at church is uh what do you want to speak to me today, Jesus? I'm listening. You know, and so it just postures our heart and a perspective of and place of I am constantly listening for you to tell me something and reveal something to me. I want to know you more today.

unknown 35:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:41

You know, getting to live from that beautiful union that we have with you.

SPEAKER_02 35:44

So good. Yay.

SPEAKER_00 35:46

So good.

SPEAKER_02 35:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:48

What would happen if everyone that you met instead of wondering if they have a father, you would tell them I love you, and act like they did have a father. That really loved them. And just welcomed them and had a relationship relationship with them. And not wanting anything, not wanting to convince them, but just living out with the father. What happens when we do that? People who've never experienced the father like you have. They know the Bible says that they know him. Everybody knows that there is a God. Everybody. It's been preached to all creation. And and and Paul says, I've been made a minister of this now. It's not even something that I had to preach, it's already pre-preached, it just lived out. But I I get to declare the love of the Father is bestowed upon me and it's bestowed upon you.

SPEAKER_01 37:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:02

Receive.

SPEAKER_01 37:03

Be reconciled. Be reconciled. And that's it. Like this is it's a declaration of the gospel. It's it's this is what is. You know, we we often call it an invitation. Really, it's a declaration. It's a declaration of this is what God has done. You know, the invitation is for you to believe it. Yeah but and so that you can receive that. Yeah. But it's been done, and it is done for you. And when you live that way, deep calls the deep. The spirit in them, the the the law that has been written on their hearts by our Father, it cries out and it's like, Yes, that's life. That's life, that's life. And there might be s other voices that are trying to silence it or speak louder, but internally there is that calling and saying, No, this is right and this is true. When you live that way, Ralph, and you when you go and you put love on display, you put Father on display, you put Jesus on display, Holy Spirit on display, you put God on display with your life, it draws people because he draws people unto himself. And that's what he does. And he says, I stand at the door of your heart and I'm knocking. Yeah, I'm I'm I'm beckoning because I want you so bad. Like I want you to live from this life and this union. And so that's that is that's what he's constantly doing. And I think if we would posture our hearts and yield our lives to say, like, Father, let my life be that for others. Yep. You know, let let let me live in that space where I'm I'm aware of your presence, who you are, and I'm I'm I'm open to having conversations with people because I'm not afraid. That's right. I'm loved so deeply. Yeah, I'm not afraid, I'm not nervous about having the wrong words. I know that you're gonna fill my mouth by your spirit, you know, and and I'm confident that I can stand before you and before others because of your goodness and your grace. This is what you've have have done for me. Yeah, you know. Uh may we all have that same confidence and that same joy to be able to speak to others in that way.

SPEAKER_02 39:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:03

That's good. Thank you, Jesus. Thank you for listening to the Everyday Kingdom podcast. Grace and peace be with you. And don't don't be afraid to share your faith story with others. God is gonna do some really awesome things in your life, and you're gonna be excited to see what happens. Love you guys.